|What is the difference between 8D, 3D and 4D? My customer has requested a 3D / 4D||8D is the baseline problem solving format and 4D/2D are adaptions that only use some of the steps (and tools) to smaller lower complexity problems. 4D/2D version are not suffient to solve a problem involving a customer escape of a facility. It should be 2D and 4D but RM13000 recommends those format to be applied for internal issues or simpler/minor issues.|
|What about updating the DFMEA as well, to design out potential problems?||8D is more about finding the Why a problem has already occured. During the investigation not only may a PFMEA may need to updated, any type of risk mitigation documentation should be updated. In the case of supplier that performs Design, DFMEA may be applicable in D7 to update for the current product and to ensure future designs anticipate possibility of similar problems.|
|A agree on updating the DFMEA to design-out problems. THis is especially important with returned product where trending issues are being seen.||Agreed - this typically comes out of D7. Updating the DFMA on current problems helps ensure it is incorporated on future designs.|
|Can we use the presentation content in our organisation training modules||AESQ Webinar materials are posted on the AESQ website and available free for use. The SAE Quality Foundations Course and other SAE training courses are under copyright and require SAE permission to use the content. To obtain permission to use SAE Copyrighted Materials, please visit https://www.sae.org/about/legal-policies/intellectual-property|
|Seems like the 2D is similar to a Just Do It||2D consists of Define problem (D2) and Implement Corrective Actions (D6), thus it is as simple as Just Do It. In both cases, it is important to keep track about the thinking that led to the answer and register it in the Quality System.|
|Is there a standard or recommended Turn Around Time (TAT) for each D step to additionally qualify it as a good 8D?||Per AS13100, D0 needs to be completed in 48 hours or 2 Days - to show that the investigation has initiated. The bottom line, intent of the 8D activity is an emergency act to resolve the problem with the highest speed to protect your customer, your own company and the end users. The more important is to push the 8D to the last D, and to act as fast as possible to secure the problem. The goal is to complete D5 in 30 days. The customer may have additional timeline requirements.|
|How should we approoach the Human factor in the Root cause D4? when we use 5 why's we always try to address the system flaws.||It is important to integrate Human factor analysis, or at least to ask ourselves if human factors could have been one of the root cause. Human Factors approach is frequently found as an underlying cause or part of the cause chain. IT is important to come up with corrective actions that over come Human Factor issues. Refer to the Dirty Dozen Webinar.|
|5 why investigation can be added to each section of an ivestigation.||D4 is the root cause step and should focus on 5 Why or 3 by 5 Why.|
|Why does preventive action is required since we arest the causes of failure in permanent corrective actions?
Why does RM13100 holds preventive action?
|Preventive action is about avoiding the problem to spread by reinforcing corrective action. Preventive action is to make sure the effect of permanent corrective action will be sustained systematically and make sure read across in the whole QMS in the company. Preventative Action may also impact future products not yet designed.|
|Do we have a template also for the D4 and D2? I mean, the 4D and 2D||Utilize the ones available and delete D's not used. As they D's in 4D may change based on the problem. Highly recommend, that why a D is removed is docummented ie "Problem contained in Cell and thus D0 population bound in not required".|
|Is there any 8D software you can recommend ?||AESQ is not in position to recommend any related software. We provide requirements and templates, if software is desired it is up to individual companies to determine their needs.|
|How is "The Dirty Dozen" applied without finger pointing?||The aim of human factors is to point exteriors factors that could modify/affect human behavior not to finger point a person. Don't accept a root cause of operator error. The "Dirty Dozen" of Human Factors are useful way of categorizing the human errors to identify its root cause. In each category, you could look into similar systemic issues. (And don't need to finger point the person who made the error.) Training is not enough of a corrective action, as that is ignoring the systemic nature of the issue that needs correcting. Please refer to RM13010 for detailed examples.|
|8D is a universal problem solving / investigation methodology, that can be used by anyone or used to solve any problem. 8Ds are most succesful when a cross-functional team with the people who have knowledge, skills, experience from all the relevant organizations/compaines are involved. The quality organization cannot solved 8Ds correctly, getting to the real root cause, if they are doing this alone. The Quality deptartment may lead investigations as they have knowledge of the methodolgy but they alone will not have all the knowledge to determine root causes and corrective actions required for successful investigation outcome.|
|But what you quoted will be taking place in addressing the systematic root cause itself right. e.g. updation of PFMEA and readacross to other similar parts/ process. please correct me if I'm wrong.||The 8D will includes systemtic root cause. D7, preventative corrective acctions does includes and updating the PFMEA, read-across, QMS, lessons learned and other options as appropriate.|
|Will this webinar be sufficient trainig to satisfy AS13100 requierments?||For the overall AS13100 training, as 7.2.4 specifies training for quality leaders in the organization this webinar is not sufficent as it focusses only on Problem Solving. For the quality leaders training it can find AESQ approved training course in AESQ home page (https://aesq.sae-itc.com/training).
If training for problem solving, this webinar may be helpful in supplementing a program to understand the 8D problem solving process. Every company should have training in problem solving that helps lead prevention actions and include different departments to include them in this quality approach
|One question about read across this is implemented at D7 but I feel it should also be mooted at D3 containment to prevent similar part wth the same issue from escaping.||If during D3, additional parts are included, they should be contained immediately. During D7, the read-across, additioanl parts maybe identified that should be involved in the solutions to prevent additional escapes.|
|Do you have to define 8D process in details in your QMS system or can you simply state "in accordance with ASEQ 8D Interactive Tool RM1300 issue xx" ??||AS13100 does not require the detail process for 8D defined in the organization's QMS system. However, it is recommended to establish the organization's own detailed process to fully reflect RM13000 to improve tracability and completion of investigations.|
|Systemic preventative actions sometimes take significant resources and time, and often require input from a team outside of the team identified in the 8D - is the intent to include all those actions in the specific issued 8D itself? Or track elsewhere?||At the D1 stage, a "Champion"should be identified for the problem. The "Champion" should be the person who is accoutable to ensure actions are taken and any roadblocks are removed even for any broader actions. Expecting the Champion's support, all those "big" actions should be included in the 8D. For some problems that are complex, it may have an extended timeline but all actions are some how "closed" on the 8D, each companies QMS may have a different method for closing (ie full closesure or moved to another method to track).|
|What is the difference between emergency Containment and Containment.. any time slot is for emergency containment||Emergency / Immediate containment (D0) is about immediate containment to protect the customer about what you are aware of, and containement (D3) is a little bit longer and request some investigations. AS13100 requires 48 hours response time to contain issues after detection of the problem, Step D0. Interrim Containment Actions (D3) is the actions to stop symptons from affecting the customer until problem can be resolved permanently.|
|While including human factors to 8D, if we use ishikawa, we already handle human factors. So is this method utilizable to include human factors?||Ishikawa (or Fishbone) does have "Man" as one of the 4Ms to categorize potential factors which might be contributing to the problem. However, Human Factors approach starts from such realization of Human caused variation to the product and lead that to some systemic approach to prevent it from happening and does into more detailed than Ishikawa.|